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Careful what you wish for!


I think our current position is a tale of careful what you wish for, for the fans and (it seems to me) the board that were not happy with Tim Flowers football.

For me the bulk of the games under Tim were some of the most exciting times I've had at football (not hard when my other love is the Blues lol) Even when there was no plan B and you didn't know where the next goal was coming from, at least you knew we were going to give the opposition a right battle!

There's nothing better than knowing that your opponents are coming to town absolutely dreading it, I'm sure there were games we'd won before the players even left the tunnel, and you could see the fear in the defending! (Remember Maidstone on a Tuesday night and I think Eastleigh on TV a few years back)

Even though our points per game shows we're not too far off the pace (at least for playoffs) and things could be turned around, I think we can confidently say that things are definitely not an improvement from Flowers. Which begs the question (that I don't think anyone has ever really asked as we were so convinced James Shan was going to take us to the next level)- Why did Tim leave?

Can anyone shed light on when our new technical director started and was this related to Tim leaving? It seems we have been on a downward trend since October/November 2018 when we went to Stockport and battered them I think to go 2nd in the table.
2/Jan/2021, 9:12 pm Link to this post Send Email to Longtime fan NewOnHere   Send PM to Longtime fan NewOnHere Blog
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


Let’s not get away from the fact that the end of Tim’s tenure was a bit of a car crash.
2/Jan/2021, 10:02 pm Link to this post Send Email to Psycho Mouse   Send PM to Psycho Mouse
 
Statto Profile
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


quote:

Longtime fan NewOnHere wrote:

I think our current position is a tale of careful what you wish for, for the fans and (it seems to me) the board that were not happy with Tim Flowers football.

For me the bulk of the games under Tim were some of the most exciting times I've had at football (not hard when my other love is the Blues lol) Even when there was no plan B and you didn't know where the next goal was coming from, at least you knew we were going to give the opposition a right battle!

There's nothing better than knowing that your opponents are coming to town absolutely dreading it, I'm sure there were games we'd won before the players even left the tunnel, and you could see the fear in the defending! (Remember Maidstone on a Tuesday night and I think Eastleigh on TV a few years back)

Even though our points per game shows we're not too far off the pace (at least for playoffs) and things could be turned around, I think we can confidently say that things are definitely not an improvement from Flowers. Which begs the question (that I don't think anyone has ever really asked as we were so convinced James Shan was going to take us to the next level)- Why did Tim leave?

Can anyone shed light on when our new technical director started and was this related to Tim leaving? It seems we have been on a downward trend since October/November 2018 when we went to Stockport and battered them I think to go 2nd in the table.



Agree with the sentiment of careful what you wish for, but when Maidstone came up on a Tuesday night (March or April 2018) Mark Yates would have been in charge.

We lost to Eastleigh when it was on TV.


---
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2/Jan/2021, 10:08 pm Link to this post Send Email to Statto   Send PM to Statto
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


Maidstone was March 2019 so definitely Tim Flowers.

Mark Yates did a great job, but Flowers took us to the next level.

I remember the defeat to Eastleigh on TV, but I thought the 4-1 (January 2019) was also on TV which is the game I was referring to- perhaps I was mistaken.
3/Jan/2021, 7:26 am Link to this post Send Email to Longtime fan NewOnHere   Send PM to Longtime fan NewOnHere Blog
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


Was it really though?

How do we define car crash, as we were in touching distance of play off spot. Granted there was no plan B and we had been "found out" by some teams, but even then it was a case of- even if you know what we're going to do good luck stopping us. We never had any disastrous results that we have now. I think that's the point of careful what you wish for- we seemed to reach a point of thinking we should roll every team over with ease.

And if the end of his tenure was a "car crash" has it got any better since? Or are we still in a car crash.

Which was my question really....

What changed? 2 different managers now and results seem to be the same.
3/Jan/2021, 7:32 am Link to this post Send Email to Longtime fan NewOnHere   Send PM to Longtime fan NewOnHere Blog
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


quote:

Statto wrote:

quote:

Longtime fan NewOnHere wrote:

I think our current position is a tale of careful what you wish for, for the fans and (it seems to me) the board that were not happy with Tim Flowers football.

For me the bulk of the games under Tim were some of the most exciting times I've had at football (not hard when my other love is the Blues lol) Even when there was no plan B and you didn't know where the next goal was coming from, at least you knew we were going to give the opposition a right battle!

There's nothing better than knowing that your opponents are coming to town absolutely dreading it, I'm sure there were games we'd won before the players even left the tunnel, and you could see the fear in the defending! (Remember Maidstone on a Tuesday night and I think Eastleigh on TV a few years back)

Even though our points per game shows we're not too far off the pace (at least for playoffs) and things could be turned around, I think we can confidently say that things are definitely not an improvement from Flowers. Which begs the question (that I don't think anyone has ever really asked as we were so convinced James Shan was going to take us to the next level)- Why did Tim leave?

Can anyone shed light on when our new technical director started and was this related to Tim leaving? It seems we have been on a downward trend since October/November 2018 when we went to Stockport and battered them I think to go 2nd in the table.



Agree with the sentiment of careful what you wish for, but when Maidstone came up on a Tuesday night (March or April 2018) Mark Yates would have been in charge.

We lost to Eastleigh when it was on TV.



Maidstone was March 2019 so definitely Tim Flowers.

Mark Yates did a great job, but Flowers took us to the next level.

I remember the defeat to Eastleigh on TV, but I thought the 4-1 (January 2019) was also on TV which is the game I was referring to- perhaps I was mistaken.


3/Jan/2021, 7:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Longtime fan NewOnHere   Send PM to Longtime fan NewOnHere Blog
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


quote:

Psycho Mouse wrote:

Let’s not get away from the fact that the end of Tim’s tenure was a bit of a car crash.



Was it really though?

How do we define car crash, as we were in touching distance of play off spot. Granted there was no plan B and we had been "found out" by some teams, but even then it was a case of- even if you know what we're going to do good luck stopping us. We never had any disastrous results that we have now. I think that's the point of careful what you wish for- we seemed to reach a point of thinking we should roll every team over with ease.

And if the end of his tenure was a "car crash" has it got any better since? Or are we still in a car crash.

Which was my question really....

What changed? 2 different managers now and results seem to be the same.
3/Jan/2021, 7:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Longtime fan NewOnHere   Send PM to Longtime fan NewOnHere Blog
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


quote:

Longtime fan NewOnHere wrote:

quote:

Statto wrote:

quote:

Longtime fan NewOnHere wrote:

(Remember Maidstone on a Tuesday night and I think Eastleigh on TV a few years back)




Agree with the sentiment of careful what you wish for, but when Maidstone came up on a Tuesday night (March or April 2018) Mark Yates would have been in charge.

We lost to Eastleigh when it was on TV.



Maidstone was March 2019 so definitely Tim Flowers.

Mark Yates did a great job, but Flowers took us to the next level.

I remember the defeat to Eastleigh on TV, but I thought the 4-1 (January 2019) was also on TV which is the game I was referring to- perhaps I was mistaken.





You should know not to disagree with Statto. Maidstone on a Tuesday night was a 1-0 win on 10th April 2018. The game on 2nd March 2019 (a 5-0 win) was on a Saturday - although it was in the evening for TV

Conceding six goals at Tamworth, with the manager walking out before the end, could be considered a car crash and/or a disastrous result?
3/Jan/2021, 9:55 am Link to this post Send Email to bristolbear   Send PM to bristolbear Blog
 
Longtime fan NewOnHere Profile
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


quote:

bristolbear wrote:

quote:

Longtime fan NewOnHere wrote:

quote:

Statto wrote:

quote:

Longtime fan NewOnHere wrote:

(Remember Maidstone on a Tuesday night and I think Eastleigh on TV a few years back)




Agree with the sentiment of careful what you wish for, but when Maidstone came up on a Tuesday night (March or April 2018) Mark Yates would have been in charge.

We lost to Eastleigh when it was on TV.



Maidstone was March 2019 so definitely Tim Flowers.

Mark Yates did a great job, but Flowers took us to the next level.

I remember the defeat to Eastleigh on TV, but I thought the 4-1 (January 2019) was also on TV which is the game I was referring to- perhaps I was mistaken.





You should know not to disagree with Statto. Maidstone on a Tuesday night was a 1-0 win on 10th April 2018. The game on 2nd March 2019 (a 5-0 win) was on a Saturday - although it was in the evening for TV

Conceding six goals at Tamworth, with the manager walking out before the end, could be considered a car crash and/or a disastrous result?



lol well they don't call him Statto for no reason. All I remember was the Maidstone was an evening game I didn't think about Saturdays.

Hmmm a game where a goalkeeper had an absolute nightmare on debut, a young academy player played centre back and was woefully out of place (who decided he was ready even for that level) and a game Tim wasn't even in charge of (I've never seen him take charge of a senior cup game)

Freak results happen even to the best teams but the fact it is an absolute one off in terms of the ONLY game we weren't competitive in all of Tim's time in charge proves it was a freak result.
3/Jan/2021, 10:09 am Link to this post Send Email to Longtime fan NewOnHere   Send PM to Longtime fan NewOnHere Blog
 
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Re: Careful what you wish for!


I think you're either looking at this with extremely rose-coloured specs on, or, given this is your second thread mentioning the club directors, have an agenda or axe to grind.

A manager effectively resigning halfway through a drubbing anywhere in any competition is never a good sign, is it? The reality is that Flowers had walked before he oversaw his last game with the club. Given he remained in place for the 0-0 at Sutton (a decent performance that day, and I think my last away trip before COVID) only because the club wanted him to wait until Eales was back from abroad to hold a crisis meeting with him, I don't think we can start pretending on conspiracising that he was forced out in some way.

Likewise, while a lot of people were frustrated with results, it was Flowers' increasingly erratic behaviour that had people most concerned at the time. His decisions and comments didn't seem like those of a manager who still had full confidence in himself or the dressing room. Again, walking halfway through a game -- whether he was 'in charge' or not (he's the manager regardless of whether he sits in the dugout, and he did travel that night) -- is hardly the action of a happy man fully committed to his job.

The third point at which I have to disagree with you is the idea that people were excited for Jimmy Shan and thought he'd be some sort of revolutionary. Given his inexperience, I think the general attitude towards him from the beginning has been scepticism and he has yet to earn anything like the trust Tim Flowers enjoyed until the last couple of months of his reign.

Just as a reminder of the difficulty and sensitivity of the situation around Flowers when he went, here's what PsychoMouse and I wrote for Bandwagon when it happened. I can also dig out Ben McPhillips' comments from the same issue that piece featured in, he being much more a glass half full sort of person about Flowers even as he left.
3/Jan/2021, 2:12 pm Link to this post Send Email to M00R5   Send PM to M00R5
 


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